08/24
josefine
&
nic
in
talkie talkies
w/
giles
nic-
Feeling pretty excited to finally have it out there.
It always feels like a long time from when you start working on a record, to recording it and then finally getting it out.
giles-
Your actual recording time was quite short, wasn't it?
josefine-
Yeah, we had, like, one day per song in the studio.
n-
Yeah, and then a few days after that in a smaller studio doing final tweaks, extra little guitar and synth parts so yeah, overall it wasn’t a long time at all
j-
And it was very organized. We had to be to be able to fit it all in.
I like it that way - it felt like we got a lot of momentum.
Time pressure helps us sometimes to keep us all focused.
g-
There's something in keeping momentum isn't there?
Just as you were talking, I was thinking about an event at the Olympics where they kept sprinters waiting for, like, 7 or 8 minutes, after someone had a false start and whether they would start to lose the momentum they’d built up for the start.
It just made me think about how difficult it can be to keep our motivation when anything
becomes protracted, perhaps against our expectations
n-
Absolutely.
With some things, the less time you have to spend on it, the better.
​
We just did
the last video, which will come out at the same time as the album, and we had one day to do it, and it wasn't even really a full day, was it?
j-
No, we got access to the venue at about 9am and then we had to be out by 5.
n-
Yeah, so we had to stop to pack up at 4.
But, you know what?
It makes everyone focus.
j-
And it turned out really well!
g-
I love your videos. I’m really into that relationship between the artwork, the video, the merch - you know, all the visuals - and the music as well. I think you have to take everything together to understand the package. It’s a whole aesthetic. I think not being serious about the visuals is kinda missing a trick
n-
Yeah, and I think as an instrumental band, the visuals really help in telling that story for each song and give people something to associate with in their imagination when they don't have lyrics.
​
j-
There are no limitations. When it comes to video making, we're just like, ‘what do we want to do?’ We don’t have to cater for lyrics. It's kind of like a blank canvas with that. So that can be hard in terms of actually brainstorming what we want to do, but usually we have some sort of idea at the outset.
g-
it's an interesting one this. I completely agree with you that it gives your imagination a freedom, you know, perhaps a different sort of freedom, because sometimes lyrics can lead you down a certain path. But when it’s solely the music, it's about your emotional reaction to how the music makes you feel
​
j-
Yeah, yeah. I think it opens it up for the listener to really interpret it the way they want to. It also makes it really inclusive, I think, because it doesn't steer anyone down a certain route, there are no language barriers and nothing like that.
g-
I love the 1K vid filmed in Austin with its old 70s and 80s grainy, bleached out Polaroid vibe. Just great, I love that feel.
​
n-
Yeah, that ended up working so well for that track. It was a really, really hot day, obviously, and we were all really hung over. We'd had a show the night before, and I think everyone went out to a party after the show, except me, which is really typical {laughs}. But even I was pretty wrecked by that point in the tour. So, we had to get up and try and make ourselves presentable for this shoot. But, it was just such a nice setting, just sitting with our feet in the pool and lying on these sun lounges. Actually, thinking about it {laughs}, it’s not that hard is it….{laughs}
​
g-
“Oh, how's life?”
“Ah, you know, I’m struggling by”
​
n-
​Haha! But, yeah, it has that really nice, retro, days in the sun, nostalgia vibe, which fits with that song really nicely.
You learn a lot about each other, and you learn a lot of patience, and you learn to support each other. It definitely forms a deeper bond, like more of a sister dynamic which is really valuable.
g-
So, the themes of creativity, community and excitement, tell us a bit about how they came about
g-
I love that idea. Oh... the 80s, I remember you (sort of!) well...
n-
Yeah, I do, too.
j-
I think it stems from the idea we had about the concept of Talkie Talkie, right? You know about the Talkie Talkie club, right, this sort of imaginary space - which we would all love to do one day - that represents the home of the songs from the album.
We do feel like there is a little bit of something for everybody - and sometimes the songs feel like they do belong in different rooms, but within the same club, if that makes sense - choose your own sort of vibe going through the club.
It's basically our own little Bitchos home.
g-
And there’s this 80’s vibe to the entire record which takes me back to a time and place. And it's interesting about when I think about that era - you know, teenage kicks and all that – I get the feelings that that nostalgia gives me. I guess sometimes nostalgia makes you feel sad, but this takes me to a time when worries could be left behind – or at least, my main worry was where my next pint was coming from - and you're in that club and it’s all about the good times.
n-
Yeah, I even remember, like, in my 20s, going to – I don't know if these kind of clubs still exist - but I remember, particularly with gay clubs, I think, where you'd have the different rooms, and they'd always have, like a pop room where the men would be, and then you'd have the indie room where all the lesbians would be, and then a really grungy rock room, where everyone would just be head banging, and you could just pop between the different rooms and have totally different experiences in each one. And that's just so fun.
g-
I mean, that idea is perfect for you because of the different influences that you have in your in your music.
n-
That's it, yeah.
j-
I just hope there is something for everybody in the record.
g-
I know it’s only a couple of years since Let The Festivities Begin, but looking back at that now with the “difficult” {hah!} second one about to come out, what emotions come to mind for the first record?
n-
Oh, it's our first child. We love it. And we're still playing a lot of songs from that record, obviously, and will be for the next tour, and they still feel great to play. It’s actually been great to mix the two together in the live set over the summer, playing some festivals and they really worked together and compliment each other. There's some kind of crossover going on in some of the tunes, and then others feel a bit further removed, but it doesn't feel like we're chopping between albums, it feels like they blend quite well.
j-
I love the first album but I do feel, looking back at it now, that there's definitely been a development for us. For one thing, I can feel like we're all much more confident musicians. We were really just starting out when we did that album, and now we’ve got two years of touring under our belts, we've done some really fun stuff and people have responded to our music. I think all of those things have given us that confidence. So, it's really exciting to be able to continue that journey. I feel like we've matured in a really positive and exciting way. I think all of those feelings that we’ve got definitely plays into this new album.
g-
Really great points, Josie. It’s an evolution not a revolution as the saying goes {what saying?…no idea}. You still kept the influences from the first record, but there are extra dimensions and, yeah, confidence in there
n-
I definitely felt more developed in terms of playing this kind of music when it came to the second record. And obviously, Serra has a huge skill set as a drummer and percussionist herself. So it's been, you know, amazing to work on all that stuff together, take all of her demos and try and make it make sense in a way that I want to play it, or …well, when we did the first record, for me and Josie, it was very much a departure from the bands we'd been playing in – we’d both been playing in the noise and hardcore punk scenes. So you know, I'd been playing really heavy, as loud and as hard as I could, 4/4 down and dirty beats. I’d been looking for something new as I really wanted a change. A mutual friend asked if I was available to fill in for this gig in the very early days of the band. I was like, ‘Yeah, you know what? I'll give it a go, because I'm looking for something new’. But it was such a blag for the first few shows. And really, even doing that first record, I was still really learning how to play those kind of grooves. Coming into the second record, having gigged so much with the first one, it was good to push ourselves even more. When we went into the rehearsal room with all the demos last February, we spent a month just really playing through these demos. And some of the tracks really felt like, you know, when you're learning a musical instrument, you're preparing for an exam, and you start learning the pieces, and you're just like, ‘I can't play this’. There were a couple of tracks that I was like, ‘these are my exam pieces, and they feel impossible right now’, but it's great to push yourself in that way. So, by the time we got into the studio, it was like, ‘okay, yeah, we can do this’. And now it's about practicing them so we’re ready to play them live as well.
g-
I’m thinking of a parallel with the off the scale amazing jazz drummer, Justin Brown – he plays with Thundercat and he also joined OFF! – not sure if you know them, but they were formed by Keith Morris and Dimitri Coats and their music is really fast, loud, kinda experimental US West Coast punk rock and also it was a personal development for him. But you could hear his influences come through into OFF! – his interpretation was completely different to the to the previous drummer.
n-
​
it's a nice blend, isn't it? And we didn't really know any of the rules for some of this, and you just end up with something a bit unique. Hopefully, anyway!
j-
I think so. And I think it really comes through when we play live. I mean if you listen to album number one, I think the production was a bit softer, a bit more sort of….
n-
Lo Fi, wasn't it?
j-
Yeah, more Lo Fi. And then you go to see us live, and it's a very different experience, because we do play hard and we do really have that energy, I think. And I think that it's all four of us as well, actually from our history of playing that type of music.
But it was such a blag for the first few shows. And really, even doing that first record, I was still really learning how to play those kind of grooves.
g-
What were your formative influences growing up?
n-
As a kid, I was very much more into sports, actually. I was constantly playing sports - running, swimming, netball. I guess I've always liked doing stuff that's quite physical and maybe a little bit aggressive {laughs}
g-
I’m seeing why you gravitated to the drums….{Laughs}
n-
And you know, I have an older brother who was listening to Nirvana and Guns Roses and all that kind of stuff. So I suppose the grunge scene was probably an influence as well.
j-
I did not grow up in a musical household. The only music I remember listening to was if the radio came on. It just wasn't really a thing in my family. I was also a really sporty kid in school. But then, I think when I was like, 15 or 16, I just got into music – yeah, it was really late, but that was when we started to fancy boys in bands, and we were like…. ‘Oh, they're in bands, and they're really cool…whaaaaat?!!’ So we were like, 'literally the only way we're gonna get to know these guys is if we play music ourselves. We're not going to be fans. We're going to be doing the same shit.' I should give credit to our music teacher in school around that time who was really good and made it lots of fun. We didn’t do any classical music that you usually associate with school. He was like, ‘Let's start a band. We're doing a rock show’. So that coincided with us first discovering music. We discovered, like, the indie stuff that was coming out of the UK, and so he got us to do this rock show at the end of the year. I was just palmed off to play bass because no one else wanted to do it…
n-
…and look at you now!
j-
So we were like, ‘oh my god, this is amazing, this is so much fun’. And literally, all of us who were in that band are in separate bands now, but we're all doing full time music. I think that says something. We were in a band in Sweden for around four years before I moved to London. I actually met our old teacher a couple of weeks ago when I went to Sweden, and he was like,’ oh my god, I haven't seen you for like, 20 years’. I remember this so clearly, because we asked him every day for the keys to the music room. He was fine with that as there was usually nobody in there. So, we just got hooked from those moments.
g-
I find it so interesting to listen to your backgrounds and compare it to mine – to see where I went wrong! I played the cello from when I was eight till about 17, did all my exams, more and more begrudgingly as I got older. My excuse was that I couldn’t reconcile my love of punk rock with classical. It was an excuse as well. Picking it up again after 30 odd years was quite emotional.
n-
I really wish I'd learnt the piano. I mean, never too late, but I just love it as an instrument. And actually, cello, as well, is one of my favorite instruments. It's so beautiful and emotional.
g-
So I was definitely influenced by the people I hung out with. They probably were one of the reasons for me giving the cello up, actually. I didn’t know what I wanted, but knew what I didn’t want – I was shy, self conscious and I didn’t want to stand out - and I think I was probably quite easily swayed.
n-
I guess I was pretty shy at school. Actually, I was head down, quite academic. I wasn’t hanging out with kids who played in bands. Once I started learning and playing drums, and I started playing with other people and starting little bands and things, that was really where I got my confidence. And I remember, the first time I played a gig, it was like something just switched on, it was such an instant thing. It felt like a lot of people were there who were friends, but not friends if that makes sense. I was never like in the “gang”. I was on the edge, right? And there was something that really switched me on after that show. People were talking to me, and it felt like I had the confidence to chat to people more. It felt like I'd found my way of fitting into things. Playing in bands as a teenager was really important for me. There were a couple of guys from school who would come around and we'd play in my bedroom, because I had a drum kit there. And in sixth form, we'd just come back to my parents’ house if we had a free period at school - their house is really near the school - and we’d just play music. This was all such a big shift for me.
j-
For me, it’s my favorite twins - Linn and Lea. I’ve known them since I was six years old, so we’ve really gone through this journey together. We started our first band together. And all three of us are now doing music full time in different bands, but we were always really similar. We were all from the countryside, discovering life. In school, I always picked non-creative subjects. So, at high school in Sweden, I studied economics and science. Whilst I was doing that, my friends were doing, like, really fun, creative school subjects. And so when I graduated, I was like, ‘Right, now it's my turn to do something fun that I actually want to do that isn't just these really serious subjects. So I wanted to give music a go. And I was thinking that it would be, like, a gap year of doing that before going to uni. Up to then, I didn't really know what I wanted to do but that’s when I decided that I was going to move to London. I just wanted to move away from home and see what's out there. That was really why I decided to study music for a year. So I found this music school here in London and moved here when I was 18 and did a Higher Diploma Bass course. And that was actually amazing, because that meant I moved to city where I didn't know anyone, but I ended up in a place where everyone was the same as me - they were my age, had never lived in London, came from all over Europe. Everyone wanted to play music and meet people with the same interests. So, I met a lot of good friends there. It also introduced me to London and its music scene, and then just through that, I made a lot of contacts. And interestingly, Lea, who I mentioned, she did the same thing, but to study at a different school in London on a different side of town. Deliberately! We were like, ‘we're not going to move together, because we need to meet new people!’. So, she went to another music school, and that's where she met Serra (Petale). So Serra and me have known each other for like 12 years now, because my friends went to that different music school at the same time. Even today, I feel like one of the reasons I’m in Los Bitchos is because of these music schools that bring people together.
n-
And you know, I have an older brother who was listening to Nirvana and Guns Roses and all that kind of stuff. So I suppose the grunge scene was probably an influence as well.
n-
It’s funny, isn't it? I was really thinking about whether I wanted to do music as well at that point and I also really wanted to do something in healthcare. I ended up doing that route as a degree and became a physiotherapist. I hadn't been playing drums for the whole of uni because it was such an intense course. And then when I finished uni, I really needed to play drums again. So I started again, you know, and then it became how I spent all my spare time. All my annual leave was touring and stuff.
g-
I was learning drums for a few years. Blimey, it was exciting, rewarding, and frustrating all in one go. Oh, and physically and mentally knackering! I literally had to be fully concentrating on the drums alone. Couldn't have anything else in my mind.
n-
Yeah, I think playing drums has real therapeutic potential, because it does have that amazing combination where you get all the happy hormones from the physical nature of it, but also it has that mindfulness thing of having to just be really in it where you can't think about anything else.
I'm teaching both my niece and nephew now, actually. And my other younger nephew is apparently going to get some drums for his birthday, which is pretty exciting.
g-
Your second album is imminent, you've been touring a lot as well where you're spending a lot of time to together, and I know that you’re really tight friends, so what do you feel that you've learned about yourselves and how you've evolved as people?
n-
I think for me, I'd been doing my other career as a physio for 17 years or something, and so I'd probably got myself into quite a safe comfort zone with that. You're always learning, but it's very routine - Monday to Friday office hours, you don't quite know what you're going to walk into every day, but you have a rough idea of the template, you're on a payroll, you know what your free time is, there’s a framework around you of who to go to if you need help, you go up the ladder and blah, blah, blah. It's all very structured and boundaried as a job. So I think for me, Los Bitchos has really taken me out of that comfort zone that I'd gotten myself into. And I think doing the band together, we've all been on such a learning curve. And obviously with the music industry, it is quite unpredictable, it is changing all the time, and when new opportunities come up, you don't quite know what it's going to entail. And we've had to learn so many new things together and deal with lots of novel situations and new problems that we have to work out how we deal with. So, for me it’s taught me how to be a bit more comfortable with uncertainty, and not quite knowing, having to just have a go, and having to take a bit of a risk, and live with the fact that different problems are going to come up. You just have to kind of figure it out as you go.
g-
Actually, what you’ve just explained there is one of the reasons why I started my podcast to talk about how important our mindset is to deal with these sort of situations, because the world is throwing so much more uncertainty and complexity at us. And I think there are more and more people finding that uncertainty plays a bigger part in their life. I think musicians are probably more equipped than to handle these uncertainties.
j-
It's so true and I echo everything you said there, Nic. But, yeah, it's funny, because I've always done music, I’ve always wanted this, but then I think - quite cleverly – your brain assumes it's not gonna work out, so you kind of build up your safety net in case, you know, things doesn't go as planned - or at least I have done this! But I totally agree when Nic said it's just such a learning curve where you don't know what's coming next - it could be thrilling in some aspects and can also create a lot of uncertainty and anxiety.
n-
You mentioned the four of us being really tight knit, Giles, which we are, and you learn so much from each other in terms of how everyone deals with things. We've all got different strengths to offer and it's that team thing that’s good about being in the band: you've always people around you who have your back. And no matter what happens, you're in that together. I really admire solo artists for doing that on their own. Because, yeah, with a band, you've really got each other all the time.
g-
I guess if you’re feeling something, somebody else is gonna be feeling it too. Makes me think about friendships and how I lose touch with people, reconnect after many years, actually lose friends, make new friends….all that kinda stuff and how important friendships and relationships are these days, and actually how important the right friendships and relationship are.
n-
Yeah, it's just good to share all the highs and the lows, I think. And when you share a really low moment together, then there's a real high that comes after, it's like that moment is so much sweeter. You have these experiences that you can't necessarily explain to other people…
j-
And being in this band gives us a very deep friendship, which I love. It's like being part of a gang where we share the good and the bad days. We’re more than just friends. When you're together, 24/7, for three months, you're going to be tired, you’re gonna be hungover, you're going to be happy, you're going to be sad. You learn a lot about each other, and you learn a lot of patience, and you learn to support each other. It definitely forms a deeper bond, like more of a sister dynamic which is really valuable.
n-
Tour time is so stretched out as well. Two and a half weeks feels like six months, you know, you go away for a weekend and it feels like a week, just because you're on the move all the time and you're constantly having new experiences. It's mad.
g-
So you’ve played loads of places around the world. What’s on your bucket list of places left to play?
j-
We'd like to go to Japan. And South America. They’re very big goals, but I feel like we have a lot
left to explore. Those are the world stage, the big ones that we want to do with this album. Fingers crossed!
g-
Should there be more stagediving at shows?
n-
Personally, I absolutely love a stage dive! I remember crowd surfing at a show at Brixton Academy when I was about 15 and getting dropped on my head. I definitely had concussion, and my mum made me go to school the next day. She was like ‘No, off you go’
g-
Wow, your mom was hardcore.
n-
Yeah, and you gotta make sure you're not wearing Doc Martens – and keep those feet in the air!